Autism – How to really help your child

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This is a subject about which I try to be very careful, since it is hugely emotionally charged for the parents involved.

I have in past put my foot in it when discussing the issue with a friend, one of whose children is autistic. To my surprise, he was firmly of the view that vaccination was the culprit, and that Andrew Wakefield was misunderstood. Of course, no matter how much skepti-babble I threw at him, his view was firmly entrenched. At that time I realised the difference between an academic view of the world, and one in which you were so invested emotionally, and backed off  to the point of apologising for challenging his views.

I have blogged in past about the antivax crowd and their exploits, but have not really looked at the autism side of things in any great detail, other than as a vehicle for debunking miracle cures and other nonsense (search on ‘autism’ here on rationalbrain for a selection of these).

Unfortunately, the nonsense keeps coming, so in this article I think it’s timely to contrast it with an approach which seems to promise some real progress in treating the effects of autism.

The latest nonsense is administering bleach to kids, based on the theory that autism is caused by gut bacteria. Yes, the new Miracle Mineral Solution is actually 28% sodium chlorite. Bleach. Orac has a detailed discussion of it here. Children are now being tortured with this stuff as we speak, aided and abetted by the usual suspects.

Needless to say, MMS is just another quack cure, with no basis in science and absolutely no trials to assess safety or long term benefits. Just more anecdotes from quacks, preying on desperate parents.

And the irony is stunning: after whining about the ‘toxicity’ of vaccines for so many years, the anti-pharma crowd is now embracing one of the most toxic substances as its miracle cure. If ever a ‘WTF’ is appropriate, it is now, right?

So what’s the alternative for parents seeking to address autism? Firstly, a bit of lay advice: it’s not your fault. You did not cause it by making bad decisions. But there is something you can do about it. Try ABA. According to wikipedia:

Applied behavior analysis (ABA) is a science that involves using modern behavioural learning theory to modify behaviors. Behavior analysts reject the use of hypothetical constructs and focus on the observable relationship of behavior to the environment. By functionally assessing the relationship between a targeted behavior and the environment, the methods of ABA can be used to change that behavior. Research in applied behavior analysis ranges from behavioral intervention methods to basic research which investigates the rules by which humans adapt and maintain behavior.

Why do I recommend this treatment? One of my correspondents, rationalfollower, is trained in neuroscience and is a practitioner of ABA. Rationalfollower has had fantastic success recently in assisting a 3 y.o. child. I know what you’re thinking (because I’m rationalbrain): but all you have is an anecdote – right? Well, yes. But the stunning and objective improvements achieved for this young patient are worth raising,  if only to encourage others to try this approach, rather than subject their children to poisoning via MMS, colloidal silver, or other crazy torture. Here’s the story of ‘J’, in rationalfollower’s own words:

I am currently working as an ABA therapist with a 3 year old high-functioning autistic child, J. We have been working on the pre-requisites to future learning- we call this ‘learning to learn’. Since I started introducing ABA to J a few months ago, I have seen an amazing progression.

When I first met him, J would refuse to walk anywhere: his mother had to carry him, or else he would scream bloody murder. This was the case anytime they had to go anywhere.

When I first attended kindergarten with J, I was shocked to see how much time he spent wandering around, completely unengaged. He was not motivated to do anything and didn’t seem to know what he was supposed to be doing (no wonder he hated kinder – how confusing it must have been!).

There was virtually no engagement with any of the other children. J would refuse to sit with the other children at mat time, instead he’d be running around while teachers frantically tried to control him.

I began by introducing a cool walking program. After only a few months practicing and reinforcement, J will now jump out of the car and walk into kinder or the psychologist’s offices by himself.

Through focusing on engagement and attention, J (after walking into kinder on his own) will now run straight to the play-doh table, or straight to the pasting, and sit down to play… appropriately. As the weeks go on he spends a little longer engaged in each activity.

I also introduced a mat time/good sitting program, involving role playing at home. J will now sits cross legged, facing the teacher, looking at the book the teacher is reading for a few minutes at time. If he is ever going to be able to comprehend the book being read to him, he first needs to be able to sit quietly, attend to the book, and listen to the words.

Another step forward is that J is now required to tell me when he has finished with an activity rather then just getting up and leaving. J has to use his words for communicating as I no longer tolerate grunts and tantrums. Instead of throwing a tantrum, J is encouraged to say “I don’t like it” or “Help please”.

A week or so ago, another key aspect of the work,  the Communication Temptation program, paid off, as I saw a little girl approach J and hand him a shape. J looked straight at this little girl, and clearly said “Thank-you”. This was a completely appropriate social interaction between J and another child.

This is a work in progress. ABA does not cure autism, but it is a way of helping that child to be the best they can, and to prepare them as best as possible for life. ABA works on reinforcement principles, and seeks to replace self stimulatory behaviours with more productive/socially appropriate ways to meet that same function. It is important to remember that any one behaviour can have many different functions or purposes, so it is important to do a ‘functional behaviour assessment’ before trying to introduce replacement behaviours.

This is certainly an uplifting story, and I have been privy to regular updates on J’s progress. Reports of the mother’s tears of joy at simply seeing J walk into kindergarten are heartwarming, and real tangible evidence that this child is becoming better prepared to learn and participate in all that lies before him.

And to be clear, this has happened over the course of a few months this year, with rationalfollower spending only 1 hour per day, 5 days a week with J.

For those of you seeking answers on what caused your child’s condition, or who/what is to blame, ABA cannot help. On the other hand, if you are seeking to try to improve their (and your) quality of life, it may be the way to go.

Look it up, and talk to a trained practitioner. Save the bleach for those stubborn stains.

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31 thoughts on “Autism – How to really help your child

    rationalfollower said:
    June 14, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Nicely said Rationalbrain. ABA is also the only form of intervention with any real empirical evidence 🙂

    Dan Rea said:
    June 14, 2012 at 6:34 pm

    Wow. Bleach.
    This must be one of the more extreme scams out there; I would have thought it was common knowledge that bleach=nasty and should not be ingested. I can’t criticise too harshly though; these choices might be ignorant and dangerous, but they are born of desperation and good intentions. The orchestrators of such scams disgust me no end; the parasites have no regard for human suffering and no consideration of the lasting medical trauma they cause.
    It kinda reminds me of some quackery my fiancee asked me to look into a few weeks ago; about the cure for cancer being bicarb soda, often injected into desperate patients.
    It’s kinda funny but also kinda disgustingly shameful. If anyone would like a brief (and highly biased) look into it I’m copy-pasting the the reply that I sent back to her below:
    (I’m not proof-reading or editing it so please excuse it’s roughness)
    (sorry about how I keep posing short essays on this site… I’ll keep it shorter in the future!)
    .
    .
    .
    RE: BicarbSoda Bollocks, May 27:
    Forgive my cranky non-academic response, but this one really doesn’t warrant a proper investigation.
    This bicarb-bullshit was created by Dr Tullio Simoncini who amazingly says that through his experience cancer is a fungus. A fungus. Yes. Apparently cancer is a fungus. Who would have thought. Funny how cancer shares the host’s DNA… Sodium Bicarbonate has anti-fungal properties.
    It’s being perpetuated by guinnes-world-record-retard-websites with names like http://www.naturalcure.com, http://www.iamaretard.com, and http://www.iwanttodieofcancer.com.
    I can’t help but go a little Ad hominem on this guy:
    He comes from Rome, where he is wanted for manslaughter and fraud. He lost his licence to practice medicine in 2003. No scientific research or studies or academic papers exist to support his work. His bullshit is in stark contradiction to most of what humanity knows to be true about cancer. Plenty or research exists that shows injecting bicarb soda into your bloodstream is hazardous, though you’d think that would be common sense. People have died from this shit. This isn’t just a case of placebo cancer treatment; it’s ineffective and dangerious.
    To see this shit-head in action look at this link:
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/08/07/a-fungus-among-us-in-oncology/
    Normally I’d (without bias) paste a bunch of academic articles but just look for yourself. The amount of evidence showing that blood PhLevels do not affect cancer cells is overwhelming. The amount of evidence contradicting all aspects of this bullshit is overwhelming.
    There are some medical applications of sodium bicarbonate of course… but I can find absolutely no link between cancer and bicarb soda. Administering it in the concentrations this nut thinks are appropriate (well above 5%) is madness and potentially fatal, even if you don’t fall into one of the many risk groups.
    Here’s what a large medical journal (American Cancer Society) has to say about this quackery:
    http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/TreatmentsandSideEffects/ComplementaryandAlternativeMedicine/HerbsVitaminsandMinerals/sodium-bicarbonate

    Phil said:
    June 14, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    So why has autism increased from one in 25,000 to one in 58?
    You could try listening to one of the interviews with Wakefield on youtube. He was never discredited, the system just said he was

      rationalbrain said:
      June 14, 2012 at 8:16 pm

      Look, I’m not gonna argue the toss on this.
      If you can’t seen that he’s a fraud from the Brian Deer investigation alone, then nothing I say will change your mind.
      Try reading some Orac on the subject at the Respectful Insolence blog, who covers this subject thoroughly.
      It’s open and shut.

      rationalbrain said:
      June 14, 2012 at 11:00 pm

      Oh, and in answer to the first question, simple case of increased diagnosis and reporting. The range of disorders now called autism is vastly greater than it used to be. That is also quite clear from the research. You should also know that in the US when the so-called toxin (thimerosol) was removed from vaccinations, there was NO correlation to any decrease in the rate of diagnosis of autism. The literature is out there. Youtube is not the answer.

        Phil said:
        June 15, 2012 at 4:58 am

        But why cant I find anyone who has listened to his interviews, and can explain where he is wrong? Everyone seems to be running scared. How do you know Deer wasn’t paid to destroy him? There was absolutely no opportunity for Wakefield to put his case forward by the mainstream media. That stinks of a cover up. Have you listened to the interviews with him? What he says makes perfect sense, and other doctors have replicated his results. Yes the literature is out there. Check this site, there is loads.
        http://vactruth.com/2012/01/13/andrew-wakefield-autism/

        Do you know the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation are vaccinating kids all over Africa? There are pictures of Bill Gates with a cardigan on smiling with some black kid. But have you read this guys, family’s history? It is a amazing. His dad was head of Planned Parenthood. The founder of Planned Parenthood was a woman called Margaret Sangar. This is some of the evil stuff she came out with

        On blacks, immigrants and indigents:
        “…human weeds,’ ‘reckless breeders,’ ‘spawning… human beings who never should have been born.” Margaret Sanger, Pivot of Civilization, referring to immigrants and poor people

        On sterilization & racial purification:
        Sanger believed that, for the purpose of racial “purification,” couples should be rewarded who chose sterilization. Birth Control in America, The Career of Margaret Sanger, by David Kennedy, p. 117, quoting a 1923 Sanger speech.

        On the extermination of blacks:
        “We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,” she said, “if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.” Woman’s Body, Woman’s Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America, by Linda Gordon

        This woman was a eugenicist. Dont you see what is going on, Bill Gates continuing her legacy in Africa. Why should people not draw that conclusion given the facts. Is Bill Gates sterilizing kids, or deliberatley harming to shorten their lives, at the very least harming them so they need more medicine to be sold to them?

        Why are there no studies comparing the health of vaccinated children to non vaccinated children?

        A lot of questions, and there are many more, that MDs and the manistream media wont answer.

        And dont you dare call me a conspiracy theorist, that is just a lazy way of shutting down debate. I want you to explain why my conclusion is wrong. thank you

        rationalbrain said:
        June 15, 2012 at 9:46 am

        Phil,
        You keep demanding ‘evidence’ that he is wrong, but I repeat (ad nauseam) that the onus on the one making the extraordinary claims to provide the evidence.
        And yes, I’ve listened to the interviews, and read his writings. I’ve also done the same with those who disagreed with his findings.
        To address a couple of your points:
        – IF Deer was paid to destroy him, where is the evidence of this?
        – Why hasn’t anyone put forward the data to show where Deer is wrong?
        – Wakefield could easily rebut everything Deer says – don’t give me that rubbish about the mainstream media – he’s had every opportunity, including in courts. In fact, if he sued in the UK right now, with the way libel laws are there, Deer would be toast if what you say is true, right? But this hasn’t happened, has it? Wakefield talked about it, but never followed through.
        – The experts say that what he says doesn’t actually make sense. There is no evidence whatsoever of gastric related autism – except for the data he manufactured based on 12 kids, many of whose parents have now distanced themselves from the original diagnoses and research (see more on this below).
        – If other doctors have replicated his results – who are they, and where are their papers?
        – Even Wakefield never replicated his own work, despite his managers at the Royal Free Hospital continually asking him to. He just never got around to it. Funny about that.
        – As far as I know, Wakefield was PROVEN to have received a large sum of money from a legal firm to provide research supporting a class action against a vaccine injury.

        As for that site to which you linked – A ‘retired natural nutritionist’? Really, that’s the science you’re going to quote? You must be desperate.

        For a really good summary of the whole sorry affair, try this: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/bmj-slams-wakefield/. It’s worth re-stating the following about Wakefield’s paper:

        *Three of nine children reported with regressive autism did not have autism diagnosed at all. Only one child clearly had regressive autism
        *Despite the paper claiming that all 12 children were “previously normal,” five had documented pre-existing developmental concerns
        *Some children were reported to have experienced first behavioural symptoms within days of MMR, but the records documented these as starting some months after vaccination
        *In nine cases, unremarkable colonic histopathology results—noting no or minimal fluctuations in inflammatory cell populations—were changed after a medical school “research review” to “non-specific colitis”
        *The parents of eight children were reported as blaming MMR, but 11 families made this allegation at the hospital. The exclusion of three allegations—all giving times to onset of problems in months—helped to create the appearance of a 14 day temporal link
        *Patients were recruited through anti-MMR campaigners, and the study was commissioned and funded for planned litigation

        And are you kidding regarding studies of the benefits of vaccination? If you can’t find this then you are just not trying. As I said, try Respectful Insolence for a starting point. OK, just forget the studies. Don’t you read the stories about the parts of the world in which the population eschews vaccination, only to see outbreaks of preventable diseases? We see a number of them here in Australia – the result? For example – upswing in whooping cough deaths, thanks to ill-informed arrogant know-it-alls, who think a couple of hours on the internet trumps decades of medical science. I include you in that based on what you have said so far.

        As for the all the other stuff in your rant, are you saying: because the Gates’ posed with a woman who you suspect of nasty things, and because the Gates’ are also keen on vaccination, that somehow therefore vaccination is a nasty tool to cull the planet of unwanted types? Is that what you are claiming? If that’s the case, then I do call you a conspiracy theorist. But it’s YOUR theory. YOU prove it.

        So let’s forget all the blah-blah, ok? We can short circuit all this by you simply providing references to the research which replicates Wakefield’s research. If you can’t do this, then I’m afraid you’re going to convince no-one with your assertions and hand-waving.
        rb.

      Dan Rea said:
      June 15, 2012 at 7:54 am

      Even if there was a gigantic increase there is no evidence showing the cause.
      Statistics can prove anything if you know how to misuse them. I could find a correlation with how many times I go through a set of traffic lights and the number of birds I see on the way to my destination. It does not mean that going through traffic light causes more birds to appear, which is the exact same reasoning behind people who attribute causality of (allegedly) increased autism rates and (((insert any advance in technology/medicine/culture here))).

    Phil said:
    July 14, 2012 at 5:53 am

    Vaccine failure admitted: Whooping cough outbreaks higher among children already vaccinated

    Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035466_whooping_cough_vaccines_outbreaks.html#ixzz20XAyTR3H

    http://www.naturalnews.com/035466_whooping_cough_vaccines_outbreaks.html

    Vaccines are bioweapons

    doctors replicate Wakefield’s findings

    http://abbykorinnelee.hubpages.com/hub/Dr-Andrew-Wakefield-Interviews-with-the-Recently-Accused-Doctor-of-Misrepresenting-Study-Findings

    How are you going to spin this ?

    the largest healthcare fraud case in history
    GlaxoSmithKline pleads guilty to criminal fraud charges, pays massive $3 billion in fines

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036416_GlaxoSmithKline_fraud_criminal_charges.html#ixzz20X7TZVLR

    yet no-one goes to prison!

    Big Pharma criminality no longer a conspiracy theory: Bribery, fraud, price fixing now a matter of public record

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036417_Glaxo_Merck_fraud.html#ixzz20X7mpHJE

    According to former Merck virologists Stephen Krahling and Joan Wlochowski, the company: • “Falsified test data to fabricate a vaccine efficacy rate of 95 percent or higher.”

    Still buying into the vaccine propaganda then?

    47, 000 paralyzed In India from polio vaccine
    http://www.infowars.com/paralysis-cases-spike-in-wake-of-bill-gates-polio-vaccination-effort-in-india/

      rationalbrain said:
      July 14, 2012 at 8:45 am

      Phil
      It takes just 5 mins to come to the conclusion that all these references are from some of your sources which have made up their mind. They are not dis-interested parties quoting research – they are pushing a barrow.
      I will never be persuaded by anything in naturalnews because it’s full of propaganda based mainly on ‘mommy instinct’ science.
      As I’ve said before – cite the published research. If it’s good research, it will be published. In particular, if decent results replicating Wakefield are really achieved, then fine. But until they are published in a reputable journal, they don’t exist. Whatever the outcome however, it doesn’t change the fact that Wakefield was a total and utter fraud – any thinking person can see that.
      And I’ve never denied that big pharma is pure. Of course they’re in it for the money – that’s why they manufacture homeopathic remedies. But the real medicine they sell is tightly regulated, based on extensive testing. Sure mistakes are made etc, but errors and fraud eventually come out.
      I just hope none of your loved ones ever succumb to a vaccine-preventable illness. If they do, you need to put your hand up and accept some of the blame for pushing this moronic nonsense.

    Phil said:
    July 14, 2012 at 10:32 am

    You are an ostrich with its head in the sand

    Why don’t you want to know if you are wrong? Is it because you have bought into this system for so long, you cannot change now

    No, the propaganda is what the system pushes, and you buy into it

    You say
    The real medicine they sell is tightly regulated, based on extensive testing.

    Absolute nonsense

    According to U.S. federal investigators, GlaxoSmithKline

    • Routinely bribed doctors with luxury vacations and paid speaking gigs
    • Fabricated drug safety data and lied to the FDA
    • Defrauded Medicare and Medicaid out of billions
    • Deceived regulators about the effectiveness of its drugs
    • Relied on its deceptive practices to earn billions of dollars selling potentially dangerous drugs to unsuspecting consumers and medical patients

    Merck fraudulently misrepresented the efficacy of its vaccine and contributed to the spread of infectious disease, says lawsuit

    The faked vaccine efficacy numbers aren’t the only troubles Merck is now facing. Shortly after the above False Claims Act was made public, Chatom Primary Care filed suit against Merck.

    • [Merck engaged in] …a decade-long scheme to falsify and misrepresent the true efficacy of its vaccine.

    • Merck fraudulently represented and continues to falsely represent in its labeling and elsewhere that its Mumps Vaccine has an efficacy rate of 95 percent of higher.

    • Merck knows and has taken affirmative steps to conceal — by using improper testing techniques and falsifying test data — that its Mumps Vaccine is, and has been since at least 1999, far less than 95 percent effective.

    • Merck designed a testing methodology that evaluated its vaccine against a less virulent strain of the mumps virus. After the results failed to yield Merck’s desired efficacy, Merck abandoned the methodology and concealed the study’s findings.

    • Merck also engaged in “incorporating the use of animal antibodies to artificially inflate the results… destroying evidence of the falsified data and then lying to an FDA investigator… threatened a virologist in Merck’s vaccine division with jail if he reported the fraud to the FDA.”

    • “Merck designed a testing methodology that evaluated its vaccine against a less virulent strain of the mumps virus. After the results failed to yield Merck’s desired efficacy, Merck abandoned the methodology and concealed the study’s findings. [Then] Merck designed even more scientifically flawed methodology, this time incorporating the use of animal antibodies to artificially inflate the results, but it too failed to achieve Merck’s fabricated efficacy rate. Confronted with two failed methodologies, Merck then falsified the test data to guarantee the results it desired. Having achieved the desired, albeit falsified, efficacy threshold, Merck submitted these fraudulent results to the FDA and European Medicines Agency.”

    • “Merck took steps to cover up the tracks of its fraudulent testing by destroying evidence of the falsified data and then lying to an FDA investigator… Merck also attempted to buy the silence and cooperation of its staff by offering them financial incentives to follow the direction of Merck personnel overseeing the fraudulent testing process. Merck also threatened… Stephen Krahling, a virologist in Merck’s vaccine division from 1999 to 2001, with jail if he reported fraud to the FDA.”

    • “Merck continued to conceal what it knew about the diminished efficacy of its Mumps Vaccine even after significant mumps outbreaks in 2006 and 2009.”

    According to the Reuters report on this lawsuit, Pfizer is being accused of

    • Obtaining a fraudulent patent
    • Engaging in sham litigation
    • Entering a price-fixing agreement to delay cheaper generics
    • Entering arrangements with pharmacy benefit managers to force retailers to buy more Lipitor (chemical name is atorvastatin calcium)

    If you or I , had done just 1% of these crimes, we would be in prison for years, yet these bastards have wrecked lives, made a fortune and no-one is going to jail. Why?

      rationalbrain said:
      July 14, 2012 at 4:45 pm

      Mate, you don’t understand.
      I’m agreeing with you. Some big pharma are crooks and should be punished.
      My point is you don’t ignore the real science (eg the undoubted success of vaccines) just because there are crooked companies. The two are not connected.
      By all means punish crooks in all walks of life, but don’t throw out the good science, especially where it has been shown to save so many lives.
      By your logic, because there are crooked pharma execs, we should allow millions to die from preventable diseases. It just doesn’t make sense.
      You need to separate out the two issues and make a judgement accordingly.

      It’s also a bit rich calling me an ostrich, while at the same time being sucked in by the whole Wakefield bandwagon. Read the findings from numerous reviews for the real story, not that execrable ‘naturalnews’ rubbish. If that’s your only source of information, then you’re sadly mis-informed.

    Phil said:
    July 14, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    Sure there is truth in vaccine science, but hardcore eugenicist s are in control at the top of the medical establishment and they are deliberately poisoning vaccines. These eugenicists, like BIll Gates have learnt to pretend to be liberals to get away with their crimes. BIll Gates: “If we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services (abortion), we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 per cent.”

    No longer are they obvious murders like Hitler or Stalin, they wear suits or cardigans and pretend to care to sucker the people in. Children are dying all over the world from vaccines, and they plan to force vaccinate all of us soon, after they release a serious virus, but the vaccine will be a worse killer than the virus.

    My point is that it is not the science that is the problem, but that elite super rich criminals are in control of the science, and the government, media and the education system, and they have written in books how they plan to seriously depopulate the planet over the next few years, so a smaller population would be easier to control under a world government. What is frustrating is that they have published their plans, and it is all there to see, but they know that people are so brainwashed now that even when its shoved in peoples faces people still don’t get it because they have been conditioned by the nanny state to believe that the authorities are ultimately there to help, also it is their religion to inform us of their plans before they carry them out.

    Ecoscience by John P Holdren, proposes

    Forcibly and unknowingly sterilizing the entire population by adding infertility drugs to the nations water and food supply
    Legalizing compulsory abortions, ie forced abortions
    Babies who are born out of wedlock or to teenage mothers to be forcibly taken away
    Implementing a system of involuntary birth control, where both men and women would be mandated to have an infertility device implanted into their body at puberty

    Julian Huxley, prior to his death even said that his brothers book Brave New World was a blueprint and that this was the elite’s plan, but there is nothing we could do about it

    People are too compartmentalised, they don’t look at the big picture

    Quote from David Rockefeller:

    “We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years.”

    “It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.”

    The government have been caught testing drugs on foster children, for goodness sake!

      rationalbrain said:
      July 14, 2012 at 9:11 pm

      Err, I’m afraid you’re now sounding very paranoid.
      If you have evidence of ‘hardcore eugenicists…etc’, you need to produce it.
      All that control over science, media, education, government of which you speak – how come you and couple of people you mentioned are the only ones who know about it? If it’s so secret, how come you know about it?
      Sorry, I’d like to have a debate about these issues, but you resort to ‘special pleading’ – whatever is wrong, you will blame on some conspiracy, so it means we can’t have a rational debate.
      That is, unless you can provide some decent evidence of such a conspiracy.

        Phil said:
        July 14, 2012 at 10:44 pm

        A couple of people? Millions are aware of this, but they are still a minority, but growing daily, as they break the controlled propaganda matrix of the fake left/right paradigm

        The most important book you can read is Georgetown professor and Bill Clinton mentor, Carroll Quigley Tragedy and Hope, which explains how both sides are controlled by the same people at the highest levels. As long as one of their puppets (Obama or Romney) gets in the agenda continues

        Evidence is in their writings and in their actions, and the operations they fund. You have to see it for yourself to know it is real. History repeats itself, and the real history explains how the 20th century wars, media, education, and medical system are funded by the same ruthless trillionaire banking cartel. The same elite baking familes put Hitler, Stalin and Mao into power. These same families are working in secret groups above government. Their goal is a severely reduced world population, with them on top receiving what they believe to be the benefits of transhumanism. They are collectivising the planet under the UNs phoney green agenda 21 fascist communitarianism, which is set to tax us to the extreme, and kill millions of Africans Rather than writing it all down yet again, which I get fed up with, listen to this succinct explanation of how they have conned humanity. This is from last Wednesday’s broadcast, play the part between 6 and 12 mins

        What debunkers cannot handle is the fact that everything this guy has said has come true, and you can check yourself, how does he know, because he has read their books and knows their agenda. The actors who pose as our presidents and prime ministers are working for them, and they are taking down the last few countries who do not yet have central bankers in control of their government.

        This is what will happen in the next few months, a complete collapse of the Euro, a few weeks later a collapse of the US Dollar, more fake terrorism to be blamed on aliens and patriots, major military escalation on the streets, the worst weather in recorded history, an escalation of war between Israel and Iran, bring in Russia and China soon after. Government has killed 250 million people in the 20th century, but this scientific dictorship (they learn how to hide) is set to kill much more than that in the next decade

        Criminals run the new world order,

        “We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money.” Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., in Foreign Affairs (July/August 1995)

        “Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order [referring to the 1991 LA Riot]. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond [i.e., an “extraterrestrial” invasion], whether real or *promulgated* [emphasis mine], that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this *scenario*, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government.” Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991

        “The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control…. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.” Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets

        “The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so-called ideologies [marxism/fascism/socialism v. democracy/capitalism] to enable them [the Illuminati] to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other.” Myron Fagan

        “The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.” Benjamin Disraeli, first Prime Minister of England, in a novel he published in 1844 called Coningsby, the New Generation

        rationalbrain said:
        July 15, 2012 at 9:29 am

        Phil,
        Sorry, can’t get interested in this.
        There is no ‘new world order’ in the making, no matter how many right-wing loonies you wheel out.
        Just saying these things over and over does not make them so.
        The whole concept has been examined many times, including the whole Rockefeller/Bildberger thing, and it’s just bullshit, really. There’s a Skeptoid episode on it, which just makes the whole concept a laughing stock.
        Apart from anything else, I don’t believe there is any possibility of influencing so many institutions across so many countries. There are too many variables and too many egos.
        So, until the day I’m kidnapped by these people, blindfolded and taken to their headquarters and told the ‘whole truth’, or, every government in the world accepts the mandate of a wealthy few, it remains a FANTASY.
        Cheers.

    Phil said:
    July 15, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    If there is no new world order, why have the elite, presidents and prime ministers talked about it for over a century?

    Bush, Gordon Brown, Sarkosi, Kissinger, Rockefeller have all talked about it. I am sorry but it does exist, they are on video referencing it. I know it is inconvenient to your belief system but it happens to be true

    The left/right paradigm is fake, the elite created both sides in the late 1700s to divert opposition away from them. They work through a process called divide and conquer

      rationalbrain said:
      July 15, 2012 at 11:06 pm

      So how come you know about it, but I don’t?
      I guess you need to provide evidence to support your assertion.
      I simply don’t give anyone credit for that much organisation. So, either you can provide evidence or you can’t. Simply saying that ‘X talked about it’ is not evidence.
      If you’d like to read some reality-based discussion, try these for starters:http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4311 or http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4225 or http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4145 or http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4271.

      Most of all, I think you should read this http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4264, and see if you recognise anyone you know. It’s entitled “Conspiracy theorists aren’t crazy”.

      In the meantime, and in the absence of some real evidence, I’m afraid I will remain one of the (clearly very small number) of people who are ignorant of this giant conspiracy.

      Do try to enjoy your life Phil.

    Phil said:
    July 16, 2012 at 12:41 am

    So how come you know about it, but I don’t?

    because you haven’t seen it or researched it.

    Here are the people I mention talking about the new world order, absolute proof that you are wrong to say “There is no ‘new world order’ in the making”. Do yourself a favour and watch it, I am sure you can spare 13 minutes

    Those links you sent, link to basic disinformation used to steer people away from the truth, by making people fearful that it is anti-semitic to go down this route, it is standard stuff written by compartmentalised people. The conspiracy was first exposed in 1791, 15 years after formation of the illuminati, in a book by John Robson. That was the beginning of the modern phase of the take over. It then went up a gear with the formation of the private federal reserve in 1913, which is succeeding in enslaving the people financially

    You ask for evidence I sent it, there is tons more, I can send you hundreds of videos, and hundreds of books. If that is not good enough, what sort of evidence do you want exactly?

      rationalbrain said:
      July 16, 2012 at 7:42 am

      It’s all fantasy I’m afraid. The illuminati is sheer nonsense.
      There are hundreds of videos and books and star trek too, but doesn’t make it real.
      There are thousands of books and videos on telekinesis, and alternative medicine and all sorts of fantasy – doesn’t make them real.
      What you are presenting is simply the classical conspiracy theory as discussed in the last link I sent you.
      What will convince me? Certainly not some guy ranting at me from the other side of the world.
      I will be convinced when I see some tangible evidence in the world around me – at present there is nil, and I’m betting it will stay that way. Cryptic bits of video in which words are intentionally misinterpreted do not do it for me, but they obviously give you a kick, and provide you with a pass-time. Why is it that you so badly want to believe this stuff anyway?

    Phil said:
    July 16, 2012 at 10:03 am

    The Illuminati is historical fact, star trek is fictional history. The Illuminati was formed by Adam Weishaupt in 1776, even Wikipedia know this, perhaps you need to escape from your pigeonhole

    You want evidence from the world around you. How are you receiving your information, from the TV and newspapers, how do you know it is not designed to steer you in a certain direction by a source controlled by the Illuminati?

    Did you watch the video I sent you, which is proof of the new world order?
    why I am I wrong when I have sent you proof from statesmen, president, and prime ministers referencing it globally. How can you say it is nonsense when heads of state refer to it? How can you say I am wrong when I have sent you this proof of them talking about it?

      rationalbrain said:
      July 16, 2012 at 10:19 am

      The Illuminati may be historical fact, but that doesn’t mean they have any influence. So what if some little club was formed 250 years ago? Homeopathy was invented 200 years ago by blah blah, so it’s a reality that it was invented, but it doesn’t make it true or work any better.
      And I’m sorry Phil, that video is simply NOT EVIDENCE. You have simply co-opted the term ‘new world order’ in a way not meant by the speakers. The video cherry picks sound grabs that confirm your belief, and probably leaves on the cutting room floor all the dis-confirming bits.
      A statement like ‘I’d like a new world order – one in which governments work to together to eradicate starvation’ – is perfectly valid for any world leader. But I know which bit your conspiracy would focus on. In other words, ‘new world order’ means a lot of things, and you choose to select only one narrow definition (and the most implausible one at that).

      Also I take references to me being in a ‘pigeonhole’ both annoying and ironic. It’s annoying because you are using it to denigrate me. But mostly it’s ironic, because it is you that has this very narrow definition of which I speak, and see only one truth, whereas I have my eyes open and am waiting for the evidence to hit them. Your approach to this is no different to
      1. The Telekinesis guys, who showed me all the ‘evidence’ videos, and abused me for being narrow-minded for not believing, but still could not provide one shred of objective evidence, or,
      2. The religiati, who will swear black and blue of the truth of the existence of god, and even try to prove it with some twisted logic, and expect me to agree with their beliefs based on their say-so, or,
      3. UFO believers – do I need to go on?

      Well, you all have this in common – I’m not easily sucked in to the personal foibles of others. If you believe something, that’s fine. But don’t expect me to share your beliefs without you having to provide objective evidence. You are making the extraordinary claims – the onus is on you to provide a correspondingly high standard of evidence.
      Cherry-picked video montages just doesn’t cut it.

    Phil said:
    July 16, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    How do you know how the term “new world order” was meant to be inferred by the speakers?

    The fact that they do not explain what they mean by this term speaks volumes. The disconfirming bits do not exist, I challenge you to find them.

    And you said that there was no such things as the new word order, when now you have been proven wrong. Given that you have been proven wrong how do you know that you aren’t wrong about the rest of what I am saying, especially considering that it is being deliberately hidden from humanity, (because it is a conspiracy) and it is only the alternative (uncontrolled) media that has forced it out there?

    For example, for decades if you said The Bilderberg group existed you were said to be a crazy person, now the alternative media has forced the mainstream to recognize that its existence is real, however now they have moved the conspiracy attack to say that ” yes it is real, but if you think it is bad, you are crazy”, why is this transference of attack acceptable, without first acknowledging that they were wrong to deny its existence ? Given the above (5th post up) quote from Rockefeller about the media being required to cover it up, is it not obvious to conclude that the existence of Bilderberg is now a conspiracy theory which has been proven to be true.

    There are many conspiracy theories that have over time been proven to be conspiracy fact. These are not extraordinary claims, it is simply the way that evil people operate via stealth to gain control over the planet. I was a mainstream liberal for 15 years, but I learnt too much, it seems they have still control over your mind. Maybe you haven’t heard but the revolution will not be televised.

    http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1949/610/33_Conspiracy_Theories_That_Turned_Out_To_Be_True,_What_Every_Person_Should_Know…_Updated,_Revised_and_Extended.html?currentSplittedPage=0

    You have been trained to be arrogant and defend the status quo. You are ignorant of the fact that you are in receipt of less than 1% of the electromagnetic spectrum, yet you claim to describe reality from this perspective and as a sceptic are committed to denying the existence of anything outside this limited perspective. This is why you are in box, your box has been made for you by your education and media, but you don’t know that you are a slave. I know this because I used to be in it as well. You must consider all reality, all perspective, and not allow others to describe your world view. The film the Matrix is nearly real. I discovered that the world was controlled by evil people, you must recognise this for yourself, through research while you have access to the net (they are clamping down on it right now) if you don’t, you are screwed and you will fall for their propaganda, and will gladly be injected with their next hyped vaccine program, which is equivalent to Stalin’s people walking peacefully in line to be shot in the head. You have a few months left.

      rationalbrain said:
      July 16, 2012 at 1:31 pm

      OK, then name a date. But be specific.
      How long do I have?
      Once it passes, and nothing has happened, will you accept it’s all a dream?
      I thought not.

      And I think you have the arrogance market cornered, with your lofty assertions. Is there nothing you don’t know? And how are you still alive??? Why haven’t the powers that be knocked you off – you’re obviously a huge threat.

    […] little while back I wrote a piece on the treatment of autism with ABA – a piece I was sure would provoke an outburst of criticism from the anti-vaccination crowd, […]

    Phil said:
    July 17, 2012 at 5:31 am

    A major false flag terrorist incident or fake/real alien invasion will occur in the UK during/very soon after the Olympic games in August. The financial collapse has already begun, the next stage is in October in the US. When the Euro collapses you have about 3 weeks until the dollar goes.

    “We” are a huge threat, as is shown by the numerous murders of high profile whistleblowers. But the elite have controlled sheeples minds through education and the media to react with scorn and ridicule at this information ensuring the masses maintain their ignorance, however more and more people are recognising the truth, and the true enemy, thanks to the free media, but new measures are coming in to attempt the censorship of the internet, to stamp out true opposition to the banking takeover.

    They have re-education FEMA camps prepared in the US, to train the public on a future without a constitution or bill of rights, as outlined in this leaked army document from a few weeks ago ago

    http://www.infowars.com/yes-the-re-education-camp-manual-does-apply-domestically-to-u-s-citizens/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    If it was a dream there would not be a history going back over a century of high profile individuals warning/boasting about the new world order. But as I say you have been trained to mock this info or just to say “it doesn’t exist”, by mainstream media propaganda.

      rationalbrain said:
      July 17, 2012 at 7:37 am

      OK, I have been warned thanks.
      Oh, and by the way, why is it that you are trying to over-ride my ‘training’ and alert me to the danger? Doesn’t that undermine the whole strategy?

    Phil said:
    July 17, 2012 at 8:38 am

    Its my job

      rationalbrain said:
      July 17, 2012 at 9:17 am

      Oh, ok, so you are not on the inside – more a whistle-blower, right? A freedom fighter, as it were, trying to alert the masses?
      What would your recommendation be to people to prepare?

    rational follower said:
    May 14, 2013 at 2:32 am

    hmm still waiting on instructions on how to prepare for the fake/real alien invasion that did/did not occur after the Olympics in august.

      rationalbrain responded:
      May 14, 2013 at 7:22 am

      Please update me on this.. can’t quite remember the details.

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